There was a poignant footnote to President Obama’s historic July 10 meeting with Pope Benedict XVI at the Vatican. Behind closed doors in the papal library, Obama handed Benedict a letter that Senator Edward Kennedy had asked him to personally deliver to the pontiff. White House spokesman Robert Gibbs later told reporters that nobody – not even the President – knew the contents of the sealed missive. Obama himself asked Benedict to pray for Kennedy, and called the ailing Senator afterward to fill him in on his encounter with the 82-year-old Pope.
The letter, most likely already re-sealed and tucked away in the Vatican archives, was probably just a dying Catholic’s request for a papal blessing. In the eyes of the traditionalist wing of the Church, however, Kennedy should have been asking the Pope for forgiveness. The Vatican’s official newspaper reported Kennedy’s death, praising his work on civil rights and fighting poverty, but noted that his record was marred by his stance on abortion. As of yet, unlike some other world leaders, Pope Benedict has not commented or issued an official communique in response to Kennedy’s death. One veteran official at the Vatican, of U.S. nationality, expressed the view of many conservatives about the Kennedy clan’s rapport with the Catholic Church: “Why would he even write a letter to the Pope? The Kennedys have always been defiantly in opposition to the Roman Catholic magisterium.” Magisterium is the formal expression for the authority of Church teaching.
[More]
Notes:
People planning to attend the funeral tomorrow should probably bring a canoe.
Perhaps being guilty of advocating 53 million murders generated a cowardly dying request for forgiveness. It’s a tall order, even for a Pope.
I’m sure some of the lowly Nazis guilty of only advocating 6 million murders felt similarily.
We’ll never know.
There are 2500 abortions every single day in the US alone.
How do you feel about advocating the murder of abortion?
Mary Jo Kopechne could not be reached for comment.
Rob, the subject of this article was Teddy Kennedy, not abortion or Nazism. There’s much more which could be discussed about Teddy’s desperation, his attempt to connect to a faith which he ostensibly abandoned, and the fact Obama hand-delivered a letter to the Pope.
I realize it’s likely fruitless to point this out but you’re never going to win supporters for pro-life by publishing snarling comments calling people cowardly, drawing comparisons to Nazism and calling abortion murder. Try honey, not vinegar.
Abortion is one subject which cannot be debated. Both sides are polarized, entrenched and viciously antagonistic. Both sides long since abandoned any pretensions of accommodation or compromise… Textbook extremism…
Not even the Pope could have saved Kennedy from spending the rest of eternity swimming in a lake of fire.
“Not even the Pope could have saved Kennedy from spending the rest of eternity swimming in a lake of fire.”
Between Rob and Mr. g’s comments, I am blown away by the judgmental attitude. Pharisees!
I agree with Mac.
A reminder:
Matthew 7:5
“You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”
Matthew 7.1:
“Judge not, lest ye be judged.”
Senator Edward Kennedy did not need a papal blessing to communicate to God. He needed only to pray.
I may be a practising Christian, but I have to say, that if witness means anything, it is holier than thou judgmental comments like those spoken here that turn people off big time.
I’m not your judge, the truth is, and there’s nothing you can do to change it.
I’m not trying to win supporters for the truth, accepting or denying it is your choice alone.
People don’t like Nazis because the were responsible for 6 million murders. Feminists like Kennedy are responsible for 53 million murders with 2500 more each day. Don’t you want to question how you feel about feminism?
I forsee a sequel to “Inglorious Bastards”.
Thank you for proving my point to be accurate.
What is your point? Let me guess,
You propose that when people choose to lie they cannot engage in rational debate.
I agree.
My point is that by choosing the truth they can.
When someone chooses to lie, they lose all credibility and trust. Their word is worthless. They cannot engage in rational debate. They are a waste of skin.
The choice is yours.
I thought you said you were not my judge. I guess you lied.
I haven’t judged you or lied. I simply discern the truth and speak it.
You have been judged by the truth long before I speak it.
Now if I were to lie, in a judgemental way, then I would not be speaking the truth, and it would be me judging you. But that is not what I have done.
How do you feel about advocating the murder of abortion?
“Don’t you want to question how you feel about feminism?”
No, because feminism has nothing to do with this discussion. And, because feminism is not a dirty word. And, yes, Christian women can be feminists. And, yes, people throw around the meaning of the word for their own purposes.
Feminist theory is about equality of opportunity and the ability to choose — such as working in the home full-time or working at a career or a bit of both. Men can be feminists as well and make the choice to be a Mr. Mom.
Abortion, or reproductive rights as some call it, actually has very little to do with feminism — although some theorists say it does. I don’t agree. In fact, those that take that view are usually what are called “radical feminists,” which is simply a more left-wing view of feminism.
In other words, men AND women can be feminists and either pro-life or pro-choice. It does not have to be an either or. In other words, feminism does not have to be seen in a negative light.
I used to teach the subject in my university sociology courses.
That said, I am not going to get into an argument over feminism. Like Mac said about abortion, no one wins in such a discussion.
Actually, you have judged me… and wrongfully convicted me at that…
Rob, you’re very typical of the pro-life extremists and it’s folks like you who prevent governments from attempting to create legislation to deal with abortion in Canada. You’re so convinced of your self-righteousness, you can’t help but judge anyone who doesn’t accept your dogma word-for-word. You couldn’t discern truth if it was chewing on your leg.
Want me to prove it? No problem; I’ll do so twice. First, I quote you from Post #8…
You propose that when people choose to lie they cannot engage in rational debate.
I made no such proposal. That, sir, is a fabrication on your part… a lie, deliberately crafted to suit your rant. Now… to continue from Post #8….
When someone chooses to lie, they lose all credibility and trust. Their word is worthless. They cannot engage in rational debate. They are a waste of skin.
I agree and that pretty much sums up how I feel about you… in your own words…
Second proof: You judged me as being pro-choice because I dared to disagree with your emotional rhetoric and to write a truth which you are incapable of understanding. The problem is you’re utterly wrong- I’m a Christian and I’m pro-life.
Unlike you, I don’t feel the need to rant and rave about my convictions. Unlike you, I don’t despoil the memories of the victims of the Holocaust by invoking the evil of Nazism as an emotional talking point. Unlike you, I know the difference between murder and abortion.
There is no debate about abortion and it’s because of people like you, Rob. Congratulations.
You both have stated that there can be no debate about abortion and gave the ridiculous reason that “people are polarized” .
Grow up and recognize that arguments are polarized that and not all arguments conclude with compromise. There is no compromise for murder.
I merely gave you the benefit of the doubt when I corrected your poor logic.
Since you boasted…what exactly is the difference between murder and abortion?
Sandy,
Thanks to 53 million murders, advocating indiscriminate behaviour and the opposition to equal opportunity, feminism no longer represents equality any more than Nazis still represent the rebuilding of Germany.
You call yourself a feminist now and you are supporting all of the above whether you actually mean to or not.
Grow up and recognize that arguments are polarized that and not all arguments conclude with compromise. There is no compromise for murder.
There’s also no compromise with religious fundamentalism, which would best describe the Google summary of your comments across all discussion boards. Unfortunately this is not Iran or the Holy Roman Empire, meaning the more inflexible you are, the less likely you are to get your way.
Calling abortion murder isn’t going to shock anyone into becoming your acolyte, chap – you’d be much further ahead to offer a home to a would-be aborted fetus than to shout at people not to do it. Then again, that would require actual sacrifice…
I don’t expect many selfish irresponsible murderers are shocked into rehabilitation by anything but the threat of punishment.
Forcing people to have children they don’t want without any plan of compensation in order to conform to your religious preferences isn’t irresponsible or selfish?
Every women has the choice to engage in intercourse or not.
The pregnancy and birth that follows is the result of her choice alone.
She should not have the choice to murder another being to avoid the responsible consequences of her choices.
Before you talk about rape, the number of pregnancies that result from rape are extremely small. Even so, the crime was denying the woman of the choice to have intercourse. To murder an innocent baby only creates another victim and several more criminals. Multiple wrongs don’t make a right.
If the woman wants compensation prior to giving the baby up for adoption let her get it from those responsible for the conception.
Rob M. — Your arrogance and lack of compassion is astounding. I assume you are a Christian, but you may not be. From a Christian point of view, even a woman who has an abortion can be forgiven. Sin is sin. Christ died for all of our sins. Surely you know that.
As far as me being a feminist and supporting all of the above whether I mean to or not, I have no idea what your point is other than you are condemning me without even knowing me. Unlike you, however, I just don’t shove my views down other people’s throats. Even God gives us ”free will.”
So, you see, you really do have a log in your eye. Not only were you wrong about Mac, you are wrong about me. I have always been anti-abortion but call myself pro-choice because I do not judge other people for their “free will” decision.
However, for me personally, pro-choice means adoption – because I have an adopted daughter (who now has her own children) whom I love very much — and one of the first things I wrote about on my wordpress.com blog which I managed to find here this morning.
That said, I also realize that anyone who is foreclosed on a topic will just keep arguing that only their point of view matters. So, this will be my last comment on this thread.
The pregnancy and birth that follows is the result of her choice alone
So is the abortion. Either provide good alternatives or learn to live with it. Your self-righteous babbling is putting off even mildly pro-life people, not least of which because you provide no alternatives to people caught in a situation. Shouting “murderer” does nothing.
Sandy,
You say you are a feminist but don’t support what feminism does.
You say you don’t support abortion but are pro choice.
Do you think you can redefine things to make wrong right? If it were only that simple.
I suspect that your confusion is what prevents you from discerning right from wrong behaviour and supporting the basic premise of any justice system which is punishment for wrongdoing.
Mildly pro-life? You mean undecided.
Maybe where you live shouting murder does nothing.
Where I live, someone gets punished.
Where I’m from, murder applies to living people. Also, where I’m from, abortion is not legally considered murder. It’s called Canada – heard of it?
BTW, never seen a group of fanatics such as yourself protesting the many military, religious and criminal slaughters of actual living people. But your cowardly kind will call abortion murder and proceed to murder actual people who work in the abortion clinics. A moral upper hand you do not have.
Do you think your diatribes win you any support at all? Be honest.
Sandy “I have always been anti-abortion but call myself pro-choice because I do not judge other people for their “free will” decision”
It is a difficult thing to articulate. I sometimes feel like I’m Bill Clinton triangulating on this subject. The way I phrase it is: I’m pro choice but seldom is abortion the best choice.
It is really important to differentiate between the real world and political ideology therefore we should ask ourselves:
What would you tell your unmarried teenage daughter to do if she said she was pregnant?
We had that conversation a couple of times and thankfully never needed to confront it or test it. The bottom line was that we said “ you could do what you want but we suggest under most circumstances we would offer to support the baby because if you abort you might/will (??) regret it years later”
Finally, I have found a new 2nd cousin who popped out of nowhere and tracked down the family. Thankfully someone at the time gave my first cousin sound advice and the baby was adopted and has grown up to be a wonderful person.
As though to prove the point that Rob hears only his own voice — he said I was a pro-choice feminist as though there was something wrong with that and that was even after I provided a link to a post I wrote. I was actually referring to a different type of pro-choice as in pro-adoption.
I came of age in the late 1950′s and early 1960′s when women had few rights. In fact, in was when there were help wanted columns for “male help wanted” on one side of the newspaper page and “female help wanted” on the other — with lots of “girl Friday’s” needed. So, needless to say, all the good jobs were on the “male help wanted” side.
However, the rise of feminism in the 1960′s changed all that and made it possible for there to be one “help wanted page.” So, if I am a feminist in that sense, hallelujah for both men and women.
I don’t know how old you are Rob, but you really need to do a bit of reading on this topic because actually this discussion is not just about abortion, it is also about male patriarchy and male chauvinism. Meaning, that no matter what your age, your chauvinism is showing.
However, in conclusion I will say one thing: No one — I repeat — no one, not you or anyone else, is going to put this little woman in her place by calling her a feminist as though that were a bad thing! Yes, some feminists are over the top just as you are. And, no I don’t hate men. In fact, I think that most are wonderful and have been happily married to an equal partner for nearly 40 years.
But, one thing is for sure, as Cynapse has implied, I would not want to spend much time in your head.
Nomdeblog — I have an adopted daughter. She was 28 days old when we got her. She is now in her mid forties, with children of her own (our grandchildren) and her oldest is now married and with a ten month old baby (our great-grandson). They are all wonderful people and my husband and I feel so blessed that we chose her as our own. Two years ago she (with my knowledge and full support) signed up on the Ontario adoption registry. By a miracle, her biological mother’s husband (a cop) found the entry and to make a long story short, they met with us first, then our daughter and her family.
What I said, and what my daughter said, to this wonderful woman who has other children, was thank you for not aborting our daughter. Our contact with her is minimal but at least now she knows her baby was brought up and loved. And, our daughter now knows her medical history.
I am pro-choice, always hoping the choice is adoption. But, again, I am not God and will not stand as judge and jury on someone else’s “free will” decision. Yet, this whole discussion reminds me of a person I met many years ago. I had suffered a second very painful miscarriage. I was far enough along that they knew it was a girl and I was obviously devastated. The point is that miscarriages are called therapeutic abortions. Someone got wind of why I was in the hospital and came and spoke to me. They had heard only the word abortion. They assumed I had done it on purpose. So, you can imagine what he said to me. Thankfully the nurse heard him and demanded he leave the room immediately or she would call the police.
Rob’s attitude is similar. They lack compassion. And, they think they are God. Well, they are not.
Anyway, Rob did it again — putting words in people’s mouths. I looked at all the comments and no one said they were only “mildly pro-life.”
Now, on to the rest of my day — with my 17 year old granddaughter who just had major jaw surgery (last Thursday) to correct an overbite. Her mouth is wired shut for two weeks, so we are going to do some beading with her friends. They are calling it a “craft day.” Should be fun.
Call it what you want but abortion is killing another living human being to avoid the consequences of your own actions.
It is cowardly, selfish, irresponsible and demonstrates a psychopathic disregard for human life.
I call it murder and you a murderer for condoning it.
You’re a marvelous example of everything I said in my first post, Rob. You’ll continue to rave and rant, thus preventing any debate. As a result, YOU are responsible for the absence of any abortion law. Enjoy your success of intolerant extremism?
Cynapse, thanks for the google search link. I didn’t think to look that up. Mr. Misek is busy, isn’t he? It’s almost as if he’s trying to be the bad example…
Mac: No doubt. It would be forgivable to think Rob was a pro-choice plant, he’s so off the deep end. I don’t remember anyone at my old church being this crazy about the topic.
I doubt we’ll convince anyone on either side of the debate that extremism is counter-productive.
I don’t know that I’ve met anyone quite as crazy as Rob… Actually, I’ve met a few crazier but I arrested them under the Mental Health Act and took them to a pshrink…
Rob Misek’s belief is that abortion is murder. Confusing this belief held by at least 50 percent of the population with present manifestations of extremism is plainly wrong. Sandy’s countered with a reasoned argument, refraining from personal attacks on Misek. We all want to avoid labelling, now wouldn’t we? They don’t fit the bill and they shut down discussion.
The point is, there’s no reconciling the two positions as it does involve personal choices and it’ll be ongoing.
Here is the point that needs reconciling. We can discern the truth about it through honesty, intelligence, logic and science. I am willing to accept the truth, are you? If your answer is no then I suggest that you are the ideological extremist.
Mac, you first.
Since you boasted…what exactly is the difference between murder and abortion?
Sandy,
Perhaps you were wearing your polarized glasses when you read post 19. Or perhaps you just don’t value the truth. You do exhibit the comprehension and focus of a feminist.
The question is open to you as well, Mac seems to be avoiding it.
What exactly is the difference between murder and abortion?
Rob: read carefully before inducing more embarassment -
Main Entry: 1mur·der
Pronunciation: \’m?r-d?r
Function: noun
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
Main Entry: abor·tion
Pronunciation: ?-’bo?r-sh?n
Function: noun
1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: as a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation — compare miscarriage b : induced expulsion of a human fetus
Anna Keightly~ “Confusing this belief held by at least 50 percent of the population with present manifestations of extremism is plainly wrong.“
I’m sorry, Anna, but I suspect the actual percentage of the population who holds such an extremist belief is very low. There’s a remarkable difference between disagreeing with abortion and being willing to equate abortion to murder. I wouldn’t be surprised if 50% of Canadians were pro-life but I would be shocked if 5% believed all abortions are acts of murder…
Thanks for posting the definitions, Cynapse. You’re more patient with Rob than I can be.
You are all avoiding the poignant question that would either reconcile the truth or expose your utter disregard for it or your ignorance.
Simply reading a definition does not demonstrate your understanding of the meaning.
What is the difference between murder and abortion?
Answer it with honesty, intelligence, logic and science to expose the truth about abortion.
Or you should slink away. The truth isn’t going away.
We’re well past meaning and into Rob Misek’s personal interpretation, which I don’t agree even slightly with and have no problem saying so. You just won’t accept it because you are an anti-abortion fanatic who doesn’t care who he offends in his mindless crusade. Mac and Sandy were right to give up on you.
What is the difference between murder and abortion?
Murder is committed against an independently living human, while abortion is the termination of a pregnancy (ie non-independent). If you think fetuses are full humans, try to collect a baby bonus cheque or GST credit on a fetus. You’ll be in jail rather quick-like and hopefully they won’t let you near the internet.
So that’s it. Before I mop up the floor with you I have one more question.
Regarding the difference between murder and abortion that you believe makes one right and the other wrong.
You said, “the fetus is not independant” and “the fetus is not a full human”.
Is that your final answer?
You’re becoming incredibly boring now. Show your gory botched abortion pictures, recite your fruitless heartbeat statistics and be off.
Geez, talk about coming from the bottom of the gene pool, Rob fits right in.
People are musing on the benefits of freedom of speech today. TOO BAD it doesn’t apply here on this site. A political blog no less…too bad, indeed.
Real quick, if I may. The five percent, Mac? Source?
Et tu, Brute, UV? LOL.
I made a comment and it was “poofed.” Ah well.
I didn’t “poof” you, Anna. And I applaud you for defending Rob if that is what you are trying to do. Truth is, he can’t be defended because I’m not certain where he’s coming from and so I can’t help him. He needs to explain himself better in his comments.
Point: I oppose abortion for one reason only. How many Einsteins have we killed because they arrived at the wrong time and were a problem? I don’t know and wouldn’t even hazard a guess. If it were even one in a million it would be one to many for me.
And we don’t know, do we?
Something for everyone to think about.
Maybe it’s my stupid laptop computer. All of a sudden after a lengthy comment I was on my desktop. Well I apologize if it wasn’t you that poofed me. My ego’s in place and I’m not offended. I wasn’t defending Rob Misek’s belief system. I speak up. I view it as a duty. Judgmental is not what any of us should be about WITH THE EXCEPTION OF CHILD PEDOPHILIA/ABUSE, FIRST DEGREE MURDER, etc.
The problem in our present age, imo, is that we’ve made intellect and mamon the main gods. This issue of abortion is relegated to individual choices. We’re either for or against and the population is generally divided on the issue. Choose life or death, as Sarah Palin made the choice after deliberating. She said something most remarkable to the effect, Trig certainly needs me, but I NEED HIM.
Rob Misek, judgment is the jurisdiction of Our Lord.
This computer keyboard has a mind of its own. I do apologize, Jack.
Apology accepted, Anna.
My point is that abortion is exactly the same as murder, and you are all hypocrites to support one but not the other.
I’ll demonstrate at mac’s expense.
There is no scientific definition for a half or not full human. Mac’s just making that up. In fact by every scientific measure, the fetus is 100% human.
If dependancy forfeights our right to life, we could save a lot of money in hospitals. Children are dependant, old people are dependant, sick and injured are dependant. Do you believe that letting them all die wouldn’t be murder?
I have demonstrated that mac’s reasoning is faulty. If he valued the truth he would accept it.
Abortion is murder.
Thanks mac.
What a shock! Why, I’m absolutely flabbergasted!! Rob… Bless you for telling me that!! I hadn’t even imagined that a fetus could be human!!! Why hasn’t anyone told me that before?
I’ve never disputed that. What I dispute is your extremism, your reliance on emotionally charged language, your references to Nazism, your absolute inflexibility and your judgmental self-righteousness. As I’ve said from the first. You are the perfect example of everything that is WRONG with the abortion issue. Self-righteous intolerant fools like you keep Canada from having an abortion law. I hope you’re proud of yourself.
Now, thanks for coming out and don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
Anna, I appreciate you’re passionately against abortion and for the protection of young’uns and you know I agree with you but be honest with yourself. How many people do you know who’ve actually told you that they believe abortion is equal to murder?
I don’t dispute that more folks are pro-life than would ever admit in public but the real extremists like Rob who trolls the internet looking for opportunities to spew his hatred are still the exception, not the rule.
Rob, I’m not Mac.
I said a fetus is not a human yet and it’s not. Like sperm, it’s another stage on the way. Are you going to accuse a man of committing genocide every time he uses a condom? Where does the madness end?
I’m pro-choice in that I believe we should stay the hell out of women’s business unless we’re willing to step up and raise the children ourselves. Very few pro-life types and virtually no zealots are willing to do this, rendering them ranting fools. That said … I wouldn’t condone my wife or girlfriend having an abortion unless her life was in danger. I’m a 30+ year old male with a decent job and two parents in big, empty houses waiting for grandchildren. We’re well-equipped to handle a “mistake”. Not everyone can claim the same.
Your patience is a wonder, Cynapse.
Now get busy and make those grandparents-in-waiting happy. There’s enough stupid people breeding… Do our country a favour and improve the race…
I guess that I had hoped that after boasting that he knew the difference between abortion and murder, mac would share it with us.
He does not because he knows that he is wrong and that I am the man who will demonstrate it.
As for you Cynapse, check with any text , the fetus is human. You like dictionary definitions, so read them. If not human, what do you think it is?
I have demonstrated the fault in your reasons for believing that abortion is not murder. Yet you still deny the truth and demonstrate true hatred. It is people like you who are the ideological extremists.
Rob – So when do we get to hear the condoms-are-genocide argument
Mac – in due time, my friend. In due time
Cynapse, you can likely guess how many people in Canada have been charged, let alone tried or convicted for murder by means of abortion? If you guessed “zero” then you’d be right!
While your dictionary definitions are technically correct, they refer only to the linguistic meaning of the words. Murder also has a legal definition. When dealing in the world of law (such as accusations of murder), everything must be clearly and specifically defined.
In this particular instance, murder (also known as culpable homicide) is defined in Section 229 of the Criminal Code.
229. Culpable homicide is murder
(a) where the person who causes the death of a human being
(i) means to cause his death, or
(ii) means to cause him bodily harm that he knows is likely to cause his death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not;
Interestingly enough, the Criminal Code does not, to my knowledge, have a legal definition of abortion. It does, however, have a legal definition of when a fetus becomes a human being. Keep in mind this is strictly for the purposes of charges and/or convictions for homicide.
223. (1) A child becomes a human being within the meaning of this Act when it has completely proceeded, in a living state, from the body of its mother, whether or not
(a) it has breathed;
(b) it has an independent circulation; or
(c) the navel string is severed.
I suspect our troll didn’t realize such definitions existed in the Criminal Code… most folks aren’t aware of such… but it won’t make any difference to those whose self-righteousness precludes and condemns any other point of view except their own. Since you’re not of that ilk, Cynapse, I thought you might appreciate the edification.
Merci, Mac. I vaguely knew this to be the case but nothing beats black-letter law provided by an authority on the issue.
*cracks knuckles and waits for Rob*
See my comment under CANADA CATEGORY today. If I’d defend anyone here it would be Mac and Cynapse. As they support and defend all the living and breathing where the first obligation rests. Cynapse alerting us to economic principles for the average working man, healthcare for all citizens (as I support) and Mac no doubt saving lives throughout his long career.
Rob Misek, your judgmentalism is misplaced. Read the book, The Good Earth by Pearl Buck. The situation is widespread today in terms of world famine. The peasant mother in that text literally has to choose between her living children in the great famine and her in-womb child. She chooses for her living children. Was she wrong?
My pleasure.
On the other matter, there is no “right” time to have kids so if you’re waiting for the planets to align, you’re sure to be disappointed. Mind you, I had both of my kids before I was 30 so I might be a bit biased… but my parents love being grandparents and now great-grandparents (my older sister’s son now has a daughter). Just something to think about.
Thank you, Anna. I appreciate your support.
You and others have it one hundred percent, Mac. There’s a question for Rob to answer there. What’s clear is we don’t have all the answers, but our blood pressures need to be attended to as we carry on up the river.. of life.
Apoologizing to Jack again. I have a complex when I assume people telling me to shut up as I’ve gotten all over this net in near three years. Everybody should be encouraged to state their case, but not agitate. That doesn’t get any of us anywhere. Difference lies with doing ‘constructive critiques.’
Yawn.
Legality changes with the government in power. It could be through democracy or a coup, the only relevancy is having the power to change the law.
So should a government come into power that revokes all your rights, you would either be satisfied or a hypocrite.
Maybe the government would take back the abortion law, and make it legal. Would that change whether it is right or wrong?
By your reasoning, right and wrong changes with the government in power.
If so, you would have made a good Nazi.
If not, I have demonstrated the fault in your reasoning.
Choose.
Thanks mac.
Right and wrong is absolute and lives in the center of Rob Misek’s cortex. The sooner he pronounces judgment the sooner humanity can dispense with lexical reasoning, laws, and 5000 years of civilizational experience.
Want to know what happens when the government bans abortion? Behold the legacy of Nicolai Ceausecu. What the article doesn’t cover is how that same cohort of unwanted children were instrumental in overthrowing the dictator and smashing many of his monuments. I guess no good deed goes unpunished, eh?
BTW, stop shifting the topic. You equated abortion to murder legally and Mac completely clowned you on that assertion. Quit.
Legally? That was your faulty reasoning not mine.
My question was simply what is the difference between murder and abortion.
I have demonstrated the fault in your reasoning every time.
When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.
Unless you have some other reason to suggest that abortion is not murder, you must accept all others being ruled out, that it is murder.
You were ambiguous, Do you believe right and wrong changes with the ruling party or is it absolute? Choose and be worse than a Nazi or a hypocrite.
Choose, rob? For an experienced troll, you’re dreadfully inexperienced with logic. You don’t offer true choice. You offer only fallacies. I am uninterested in your flawed reasoning and I spur your flawed, artificial choices.
I don’t believe any government has the power to “revoke” rights… but I suspect you and I would disagree on what constitutes a “right” almost as much as you and I disagree on what constitutes a murder. Here’s the tricky part… pay attention since it’s a bit complex…
We live in Canada which is a constitutional monarchy whose laws are grounded in hundreds of years of common law branching from the signing of the Magna Carta Libertatum. This form of government is underpinned by the concept of the rule of law; where individual rights supersede the whims of tyrannical governments.
The kind of government best suited to one of your convictions is called a theocracy or, in some cases, a constitutional theocracy. There are many examples of this form of government, both historically and currently. These governments usually offer a synthesis of a form of legal code with the dictates of a particular religion. Theoretically, most won’t allow abortions but they usually manage to find ways around inconvenient rules if it’s an unwanted child…
Generally speaking, theocracies are regarded as being tyrannical since they (like you) are completely intolerant, judgmental and hold very low regard for individual liberties. If it’s any help, there’s more theocracies on the planet now then there are constitutional monarchies or other forms of governments based on liberty. Mind you, most of those theocracies are Muslim so someone like you would likely be killed quickly but that’s how theocracies operate.
Does that help to explain why I find extremists like you distasteful, rob?
Yes choose.
If you believe that right and wrong is absolute, explain the difference between murder and abortion.
If you believe that right and wrong are defined by those in power, then that is your reason for supporting abortion but not murder.
If you choose the latter, you would fit in with the most barbaric cultures in human history. Muslims certainly wouldn’t have you.
I’m not interested in playing your game of false choices and accusations, rob, but I thank you for being such a perfect example and proving the point of my first post so absolutely.
Mac, I think we’ve provided enough to this guy. If being sonned legally, lexically and historically isn’t enough to give him pause then he probably thinks he’s some kind of evangelist. Which makes us prey No thanks.
Prey or pray?
It’s your prerogative to be indecisive and cowardly in argument. That is what defines you. It is unfortunate that we wasted so much time finding this out.
You run from the truth, but you can’t escape it.
Who is this “we” whose time was wasted, rob? There’s only you…
How many have you converted with your vitriolic sermons here? Has your hatred proved effective as a means of rallying followers? The steady stream of Nazi references brought in a steady stream of supporters? What kind of success has your lies and fallacies achieved?
Fie, rob… Spread your poison elsewhere…
The truth is not poison. Truth is medicine that improves all of us. It need only be spoken by those who value it.
While you continue to deny that abortion is murder, you and everyone else who has observed, know that the fault in your reasoning has been exposed.
Truth must be hard to accept for any loud mouth, much less thick headed ones. Still, that is what you must do.
What was that fault again, Rob? Cause I could have sworn that every external source pretty much verified Mac’s stance.
There is no truth in your blather, rob, only wild-eyed extremism.