Allegations of detainee torture are about a problem in Afghanistan that is beyond Ottawa’s control, Prime Minister Stephen Harper says.
Mr. Harper and his cabinet have been taking a beating since a diplomat told a Parliamentary committee that the government ignored warnings that detainees captured by Canadian soldiers were likely tortured after they were handed over to local forces, but Mr. Harper insisted it’s an issue for the Afghans to settle.
“The allegations are not being made – I hope – against Canadian soldiers,” Mr. Harper said in a year-end interview with the French-language television network TVA. “… Our diplomats reformed the transfer system. We are speaking here of a problem among Afghans. It’s not a problem between Canadians and Afghans. We’re speaking of problems between the government of Afghanistan and the situation in Afghanistan. We are trying to do what’s possible to improve that situation, but it’s not in our control.”
Richard Colvin told the Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan last month that the government ignored his repeated warnings in 2006 and 2007.
Since then, the government has insisted there was no proof of torture, and moved in May, 2007, to ensure that Canadian officials could monitor detainees in Afghan jails.
[More]
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There are 3 issues that tend to get a lot of MSM coverage.
1. The detainee issue and the good news is that a new Nanos Research poll found that fewer than half – 48.8 per cent – had even heard of the issue. Those who have been paying attention are split on what to believe
2. On Ottawa’s Global Warming position in Copenhagen The Gazette says : The poll found that 43 per cent would be less likely to vote for the Conservatives because of the government’s position and 13 per cent would be more likely to support them.
3. On Ottawa balancing the books The Globe and Mail says : “ I hope he (Flaherty) realizes that when you cut public servants, you cut public service. ”— Gary Corbett, the president of the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Of the 3, the most important is balancing the books and since PMSH and Flaherty have the unions worried about shrinking the government then there is hope we will get that done eventually.
However, the left will be constantly trying to stop the shrinking of government by stirring the pot on items 1 and 2. Global Warming is a religion and will not go away overnight. The facts on Global Warming will win in the long run but the left will find new ways to achieve schemes of transfer of wealth and other hair brain world government ideas. PMSH should try and switch the focus to actually cleaning up the environment versus worrying about CO2 but that is easier said than done.
We will be getting off the front lines in Afghanistan in 2011. We need to stick to that plan or some Afghan calamity will give Iggy the break he needs to get in power and we’ll get expanded entitlements like National Day Care run by CUPE instead of shrinking government.
In short, PMSH’s strategy is to shrink Ottawa and Obama has the opposite strategy to grow Washington. Both are doing a better job then their opposition who just play with tactics not strategy. If we shrink Ottawa we will be doing our kids a big favour and create an environment of job creation versus the US which will kill jobs.
Not surprisingly I disagree with Harper. If we know that prisoners are being tortured, or are likely to be tortured, by the people we turn them over to, we do in fact have control over the issue – don’t turn them over.
Colonizing Afghanistan is not why we’re there. Afghans will treat Afghans customarily and it will take a long time of nation building before that changes. Post World War II terrorists were summarily shot in order to bring peace to Europe, and they usually just attacked military targets, they weren’t blowing up schools and killing teachers. Western armies should re-learn some of those methods that worked so well, the terrorists expect nothing less anyhow.
Stageleft your comment is why we need to get off the front lines in 2011. We are already spending too much blood and treasure on fighting plus nation building there. We can’t blame the Afghans for their behaviour with terrorists. Thus we can’t guarantee the safety of the prisoners. Therefore “don’t turn them over” means even more expenditure.
There are too many #2’s in Canada who are expecting us to spend even more on the war and the nation building or more likely their tactic is to simply derail the CPC.
Perhaps the lesson for us in Afghanistan is that future wars should be fought only the way Clinton fought them in the Balkans. Bomb the crap out of them, don’t put our troops at risk, take no prisoners. Moreover, don’t let Islamofascists turn our own Western laws against our troops. This will mean that the things that the left claimed to promote in the third world, like equality of education for young girls, won’t get done. But we can’t fight the MSM and a real war too, particularly when faced with massive fiscal deficits in Ottawa and the Provinces.
Meanwhile we have an economic war to fight, that’s the priority. Otherwise our kids will be left an unserviceable national mortgage. Digging our way out will be a struggle because the USSA under Obama Pelosi and Reid have no fear of colossal debt, in fact they will use it to try and create a more authoritarian regime. We need a balanced budget and we need new trading partners. That’s our priority.
As usual, the left has no workable solutions to offer, just mindless criticism. At this stage, it would be foolish not to hand prisoners over to Afghan officials because it would require that we build expensive prisons in Afghanistan, greatly increase the number of Canadian troops over there in order to staff those prisons, keep them there well past 2011, and would negate any effort to train illiterate Afghans at running their own prisons at anywhere close to international standards.
In 2001 when Canadian troops first took prisoners in Afghanistan, the Chretien Liberals at first denied that we even had troops there, and then denied those troops took prisoners, right up until January of 2002 when they were shown photographic evidence of Canadian troops controlling Afghan prisoners. “Why in the world did he not tell? Why in the world did he not tell his prime minister? Who’s in charge of this bunch of keystone cops?” asked Tory Leader Joe Clark.
Eggleton confirms JTF2 has taken prisoners in Afghanistan
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/01/29/jtf2020129.html
Defence Minister Art Eggleton finally disclosed that Canadians just handed their prisoners over to US troops, but when that caused a commotion and they committed more Canadian troops to the effort, the Liberals directed our military to hand their prisoners over to Afghan officials, which was exactly what the US troops were doing at the time with any prisoners not destined for Guantanamo Bay. There were 3 more Liberal Defence Ministers following Eggleton and none of them could have done anything at all to ensure the safety of Taliban prisoners, because a deal to monitor them, post transfer, wasn’t worked out until after the Conservatives took power. If this new batch of Liberals ever got their wish for an expensive parliamentary inquiry, most likely they would soon regret it.
If they were to be tried for crimes against humanity, Canadian troops would first have to wait in a long line behind the Taliban and Al Qaeda themselves, current Afghan officials, the UN, US troops, and the troops of several Euroweenie nations, who were supposed to be concentrating their efforts on rebuilding and training Afghans in safer northern Afghanistan while our troops fought in the south. It isn’t going to happen, which makes this a pointless smear against our troops, because it is they, not their political masters, who would have to answer to any such charges in liberal fantasy court.
Re: #5 — Agreed.
It is an attack on our troops by the “official opposition weenies” to get at our government.
“Lefties” — they never miss a trick and it’s why I don’t follow them UNLESS I find a story that will really piss off Canadian voters. This is one of them.
To be clear — Harper is the only PM who has ever spent a night in the field with JTF2 and that is all it takes. When he heard the horror stories he gave the opposition a chance to vote and they did.
Pullout in 2011 they all screamed.
Fair enough Harper said.
Let’s do it.
In the process they have exposed themselves for all to see.
Cowards who are more intent on power than concerns about little girls who truly want to learn and advance in a country abandoned.
And just to make the point. There was a time (actually several of them) when Canada would have raised divisions of troops to do right.
Not anymore. Trudeau changed this country into a nation of self serving cowards and I’m far from certain I like that idea.
Thats true Jack as to what Trudeau did and yet, when there was trouble like in Quebec with the FLQ, it was the Canadian Military he turned to.
I still remember him saying to a journalist who asked him what he was going to do and responded “just watch me.” Probably the only time in his life he ever acted like someone from the right.
But I agree, he and other liberal PMs that followed never liked the military.
“just watch me.”
I give Trudeau an A plus on terrorism
He gets an F on fiscal.
But he got it right on the FLQ, the big issue of the day. It was the guys after him that could have corrected his fiscal errors faster and didn’t. So overall I’m seeing him in a more favourable light than Liberals generally who have zero principles.
BTW Trudeau also admitted around 1995 that multiculturalism was an error. But again Chrétien and his back room boys liked those multiculti voting blocks. Just like India does, then do you really have a democracy or just corruption with the buying off of the ethnic groups. I sometimes worry the CPC will do the same.
I don’t know how many of you have ever been in a street fight , or a brawl in a bar , but when I was young I thought you could fight by the rules . I came to realise that all it takes is one s.o.b. that isn’t and you lose . A sucker punch from behind or a kick in the testicles and the fight is over , 9 times out of ten . I am by no means in favor of or condoning torture , but you can’t win a street fight by playing by the rules and refereeing , after the fact . You are not going to beat the taliban or Al-Quaida by playing by the Marquis of Queensbury rules . It is not going to happen . You either have to accept the fact that you’re going to be in a street fight or don’t go out into the back alley . The only rule of a street fight is there are no rules . There are no referees in the back alleys .
Did you know that a punch in the lips was torture, leaving the lights on was torture, not turning the music down at 9:00 was torture, pointing a prayer rug west was torture and torture was real because some piece of crap said it was.
Can you imagine what that does to our troops that see first hand what the Taliban and AQ do? That they are being investigated on the say so of admitted terrorists. People that think nothing of planting a bomb in the market and waiting until it’s full of women and children doing the days shopping. Killing every single living creature in a village because they accepted water and hydro from US/Canadian troops.
In the words of Ed Anger, this tends to make me “Pig Biting” mad.
Pat
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