My heart, my health, my choice. With those six words, Danny Williams neatly summed up the case for private health care. No matter how much the Newfoundland and Labrador Premier goes on to defend Canada’s state health care monopoly, the damage has been done to the case for a single-payer system. He has exposed it for what is: a charade with often tragic consequences; a system which purports to be fair but which ends up treating people unfairly.
There is one system for the rich and one for the rest of us. Mr. Williams and others in his income bracket can afford to jet down to a posh Florida hospital for the latest procedure. Joe and Jane Canadian cannot.
It’s worth noting that Mr. Williams is not an anomaly. Many politicians have sought treatment in the United States or in private facilities. The late Quebec premier Robert Bourassa sought skin cancer treatment in Maryland. Former MP Belinda Stronach had breast cancer surgery in California. And even NDP leader Jack Layton turned to the private sector for a hernia operation, though he managed to get it on home soil.
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I don’t begrudge Mr William choosing to go USA for his heart operation but what offends me is the utter hypocrisy of him and the other politicians who preach to the Canadian people how great the Canadian health system is and how we shouldn’t have the ability to go to private clinics if we so choose, because we would then have a health care system like bad old USA. Then when they become ill, they run to the US system.
Seems like he just singlehandedly proved the need for a mixed public/private system.
Thanks – now let’s get started with the reform. I’d gladly pay a couple thousand to actually have a family doctor.
Together with North Korea, Canada is the lone holdout that denies its people choice over one of the most important aspects of their lives: their personal health and well-being.
…North Korea AND Cuba. Damn we keep good company.
if we allowed private clinics in Canada our health care would improve 100%
we are losing our top Doctors every year we can close our eyes or we can demand every citizen of Canada be able to access the kind of care Danny Millions received in Florida right here in Canada
fh
Canada is not losing its doctors as a recent CMA report shows that more Canadian Doctors are returning to Canada from the states as compared to those going down.
Even the LIEberals are smart enough to realize that Canadians like their Universal Health Care, even with its warts and anyone that tries to water it down, will lose at the polls.
And as Jack often likes to say, you can take that to the Bank.
‘Real Canadians Stick up for Universal Health Care;’
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/29/real-canadians-stick-up-f_n_243752.html
And ‘number of Doctors returning to Canada increases’
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061013/cdn_doctors_061013?s_name=&no_ads=
You people are idiots. He could have had this procedure at many centres throughout Canada. Him going to Florida, in the middle of winter, to recover in his cozy condo that he owns, says nothing about our single payer system. Experts throughout the country have all said he could have had the procedure here under expert hands with no wait time. Yet he went to Florida to have it nearly 2 months later. Give me a break people.
And for the record, Toronto doctors pioneered heart valve repair surgery that many Americans have come to get done. Research before cherry picking a story and slanting it to fit your agenda
In additon, Bourrassa was part of an experimental cancer surgery study, and Stronach went to California for breast reconstruction surgery. Not breast cancer surgery. She had that done, along with all cancer treatment, in Toronto. Jack, you know Jack!
And for the record, Toronto doctors pioneered heart valve repair surgery that many Americans have come to get done. Research before cherry picking a story and slanting it to fit your agenda
They may have pioneered it, but Canadians still have to wait in life-threatening lines to receive it.
“Canadians like their Universal Health Care, even with its warts and anyone that tries to water it down, will lose at the polls.”
Yes Canadians do believe that, but they do so because they have been lied to and deceived by politicians and deceived by the media. Agree, our health care system is good, but it is not great. It could be but never will be. Why? Because any calls for change, whether such changes might be for the better is immaterial, get responded to by ill informed hysterical fearmongers screaming “don’t believe them, they want to change our system to the American system”. It is difficult if not impossible to have an adult conversation or discussion about our health care system. Costs are spiriling ever upwards and services downwards yet any, and I mean ANY attempt to improve the system only gets a political party or person accusations of having diabolical schemes such as to “water it down”. What the hell does that even mean anyway? Maybe make somebody wait 8 months for an MRI instead of 6? As far as the numbers of Canadian doctors returning from the USA increasing…..have you heard what’s happening down there? Of course they want out and it’s got absolutely nothing to do with health care, it’s economics.
‘Its economics’ or very expensive law suits. Its part of the american culture, ‘I’ll suit” which must push up the cost of their malpractice insurance rates.
Thanks but no thanks as I’ll stay with Canada’s much admired universal health care. It saved my wifes life (cancer).
‘Canada’s health system beats US. in cost and results’
http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/webfeature_snapshots_20071205/
That website should be http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/webfeatures_snapshots_20071205/
‘Canadas health system beats U.S. in cost and results’
Canada’s national inferiority complex is pathetic and because if it our healthcare system is unlikely ever to improve beyond its current mediocrity. The USA is at the leading edge of medical technology and Canada is not, it’s that simple. The CBC article Pierre got his misinformation from clearly states that Canadian doctors pioneered in “using” such medical technology, not that they “invented it”, or are the best at implementing it, and that a parallel surgery is available elsewhere in Canada, but that it is more invasive. Canada hasn’t contributed in any meaningful way to medical science since Banting and Best discovered insulin, and that was before our system was socialized. Only one Canadian other than Banting has won a Nobel prize for advancing medicine, David H. Hubel, and he was educated in the US where he also did his award winning work. In the meantime, 95 Americans have received the Nobel prize for advancing medicine, far more than any other country, because the vast majority of all medical advances come out of the USA’s more entrepreneurial system.
UV, that article is bullshit.
By any measure, cancer treatment in the U.S. is superior to anywhere in the world. I do not know why , but i suspect it is because the patient in the U.S. does not have to wait for treatment.
As for the life expectancy issue, it would be interesting to know how that is calculated. The surveys that I saw showed death from all causes, including accidents (42,000 highway deaths per year) which has no bearing on the health care system.
All this fawning over American healthcare is due to Survivorship Bias. Sure, US recipients of cancer treatments MAY receive far better treatment than Canadians and Brian is absolutely correct to point out that American scientists have provided the lion’s share of recent medical discoveries.
But how is it done?
Medical services above emergency care are bought and sold like rolex watches. If you have the money, you can get any level of service you want. But here’s the important part: if have you have no money, you will get next to nothing. Medicare and Medicaid are optional for doctors to take and don’t provide nearly the level of care that, say, Dick Cheney gets every time he needs his heart put back together.
The pay to play system is bolstered by the pharmaceutical industry, which gives free samples to doctors in order to push off-label uses in order to move more units. This money is put back into more research.
So yes, if you can afford rolex healthcare you CAN receive it. And yes, pharmaceutical companies are self-sufficient. But what’s the COST?
1) Over-medication of patients with enough health insurance. Hence, no dependency on government for funding
2) No medication or surgery for patients with no health insurance or not enough (the latter group being ignored thus far in the debate). That’ll certainly keep the wait times down.
Thus, bringing that system over here provides absolutely no guarantee that you will enjoy the benefits, as even many Americans can’t. No American fanboys on this site ever take the downside into account.
People over thirty have paid for medicare via huge diversion of our taxes into the bottomless blackhole called ‘health care’, all of our working lives. We did not have the option to purchase private insurance and those of us over 50 would never get private insurance as no insurance company would insure us. We Canadians have paid a lot more for the mediocre care that is offered up to us when we are sick , than people in the USA have because the ‘system’ is so used and abused by irresponsible people. Also, like all gument systems we are saddled with a bloated medicare bureaucracy and unions in the hospital. Doctors are not family friendly’ anymore – they never make house-calls (yes, they used to do that before medicare!) , they don’t know their patients names or their families. Most of the time a patient is a $$ sign, nothing more, The hospitals are cleaned with bacteria friendly ‘green’ products, the nurses and Drs. and staff slop around in slippers and bacteria friendly uniforms (never starched and bleached and often not too clean). In the ‘bad old days’ floors were washed and waxed and shined daily, food was prepared with taste in mind as well as health and the laundry was snow white and starched.
We do have two tier medicare already, people like Paul martin and Crechen go private clinics in Quebec ; Jacko Laydown went to the Shouldice Private clinic to have HIS hernia fixed ……if you have the money you can get proper care. Danny is not the exception, he is the rule. His attack on an old ally and friend (PMSH) is what grinds on my nerves. He owes the Prime Minister an apology and I hope that he is man enough to deliver one – I like Danny Williams and I would vote for him if I lived in NFLD. He is a champion for his province and he has not done anything worse than make himself look like a self centred hypocrite, IMO.
Don’tcha just luv KKK Cy’s logic laced with hatred? If not everybody gets Cadillac healthcare, nobody gets Cadillac healthcare. That will sure teach them thar farmboys!
An American acquaintance of mine was working here in Canada for a year when he developed appendicitis. He had emergency surgery done at the University Hospital and when he got back on his feet he rushed to the US to make sure that the surgery was done right. He is highly educated, urban and voted for Obama. If he doesn’t trust socialized medicine what chance does the US have of bringing in socialized healthcare?
What I love is how you attach KKK to my name every time your selfish preferences are challenged.
Your friend simply used his advantage. Who wouldn’t? Doesn’t mean everyone in the US can. At least 1/3 can’t. If you’re ok with that then keep advocating for US style healthcare. Obviously you will not be content until you can step on others in all imaginable ways and flash your “cadillac” to others.
My point is if you want to treat health care like a rolex or a cadillac then you have to be prepared for the fallout when it is suddenly discovered that not everyone can afford these items. There is no entitlement under a free market.
Most of your fellow farmboys can’t afford cadillac healthcare, or any for that matter. You seem unconcerned about this as long as #1 can get ahead. Hopefully it’s just that you found Jesus recently.
Now I wonder … do you have ANY response to my point about survivorship bias?
The cost of a Cadillac -
http://www.baltimoreathome.com/detail.aspx?dct=54&id=8675&mid=1496&loc=rss
Does pointing this out make a black independent a KKK member? Only if you’re Joe.
For anyone else, how can the ideal medical system be the #1 cause of personal bankruptcy? Can there be any expectation that Americans will turn from debtors into savers under such circumstances?
More bankruptcy news:
http://www.bankruptcycanada.com/blog/canadian-and-us-bankruptcy-rates/
The US bankruptcy rate (6.9 per thousand) for the year 2004 is more than twice as high as the Canadian bankruptcy rate (2.6 per thousand). The main reason for the huge disparity in bankruptcy rates in Canada and the US is because of the different health care systems in the two countries.
…
Most of the medical bankruptcy filers were middle class; 56 percent owned a home and the same number had attended college. In many cases, illness forced breadwinners to take time off from work — losing income and job-based health insurance precisely when families needed it most. Families in bankruptcy suffered many privations — 30 percent had a utility cut off and 61 percent went without needed medical care.
As long as “someone” gets the cadillac, right? Who would have guessed that the third world would be used as a model for the first world?
Re: #18. Where does the “1/3 can’t” figure come from? Polls have clearly show that fully 80% of Americans are satisfied with their current health care system. So 20% not 33% would be accurate. Even then, that figure doesn’t mean that 20% of Americans can’t afford or don’t have access to health care, it only indicates that 20% would like to see improvements to what they already have. In truth, 0% do not have access to health care. Federal law in the US demands that anybody, citizen or even illegal alien, who shows up at a hospital emergency department in need of medical assistance shall receive such treatment as is required and further they shall not be discharged until the completion of such care, no exceptions. NO, that is not saying that there is no room for improvements to the current system that would assist the poor and currently uninsured so you can forget about laying that tired worn out leftist guilty trip on anybody.
It’s pretty obvious there’s no guilt. What I’m trying to do is cut through the BS and make you admit that you want 2-tier healthcare – no matter what the cost to people who don’t have huge patches of land to mortgage when they need it. I want honesty. No more platitudes that hide your agenda. No more hiding the inequities behind lefty references.
No “fix” you can come up with will make any difference since your system is fundamentally “pay or perish”. So admit that you think the rich deserve better health care, just as they deserve better cars and better jewelry. Why can’t you be honest?
No platitudes whatsoever. Unlike you I believe that people have a right to spend their own money how they see fit. Perish the thought that it be on themselves. There’s no BS to cut through, no platitudes nor do I have an agenda. The poor deserve good health care. But if some can afford to pay for an MRI and do so they remove themselves from the government waiting list. That puts somebody waiting on the government list that much closer to getting their own treatment! What is there not to understand about a win win situation? By your way of thinking everybody onto wards, no private room just because you can afford it. Don’t dare buy your own set of crutches just because you can afford it, everybody go to the government ‘crutch bank’ and sign out a pair leaving one less pair for those in need. Everybody onto manual wheelchairs, no more electric for those who can afford it. Step on the faces of the poor in order to be able to reach up and get at the rich. It’s not me who has to cut the BS and the platitudes. A 2-tier system would save taxpayers immense amounts of money which in turn then becomes available to help those with less means. By your way of thinking everybody should also drive Lada’s, damn the ones who can afford a Chevy Impala. Everybody has to stay in a 2 star resort because not everybody can afford a 5 star. Oh wait a minute. Everybody can’t afford to go on vacation. So nobody can go on a vacation. There are only 3 countries in the world where it is illegal to purchase your own health care if you so desire. North Korea, Cuba and Canada. Try and wrap you head around that little bit of socialist trivia.
There are only 3 countries in the world where it is illegal to purchase your own health care if you so desire.
That’s not 100% true. Depending on your private/corporate plan you can purchase more health care and even have a private room when you are being treated for, say, a stroke. Seen it with my own eyes.
The rest of your post confirms what I said – you think health care is in the realm of Rolexes and jewelry. Again, why couldn’t you say that? Why did you have to resort to comparing North Korea, Cuba and ttrying to scare people with Soviet Lala death scenarios (when did anyone suggest jewelry or cars should be government distributed?)
Good grief I’m not trying to scare anybody. I used silly examples to address your silly accusations. You are big on wealth redistribution. You are a closet socialist. Now, I’m off to the library to research my family tree. Hopefully I’ll discover that some sleazebag Roman Centurian took advantage of an English cousin of mine 2000 yrs ago out behind the aqueduct. Then I’ll have a reason to hate the world (and Italians in particular) I live in today. Capiche?
Actually,the more i look into it, It would not take much to fix our health care system.
There are only two problems.
1. Costs are too high.
2. Wait lists are too long.
I believe it is a given that politicians cannot solve the problems. Perhaps we should bite the bullet and get the wait lines cleared up once and for always, then devise a health care policy that is patient-centered instead of budget-centered.
It can be done. Who will do it is the question.
BTDT are you familiar with a mixed economy? Hopefully because that’s what we’re in, and part of being mixed is that certain elements for which the nation will benefit from EVERYONE having are socialized (health, education) while the bulk of goods and services are left up to the free market. Thus, unless you agree to my characterization of your views you are just as much a “socialist” as I am and pretending to be a pure capitalist.
I am a staunch believer in healthcare for all, and I don’t care what you call me. We’re not talking about Air Jordans or Range Rovers – we’re talking about an investment in our greatest resources – human labour. If it is sickly and uneducated it will forever be a burden either now (welfare, social assitance) or later (prison, civil unrest). To quote Jack, you can take that to the bank. Leaving the preparedness of your work force up to a lottery is ridiculous.
Lee: Can you expand on that idea a bit?
i like your writing style
I have genuinely took pleasure reading your posts here on Jack’s Newswatch » Blog Archive » Our health, our choice. Surprisingly insightful plus easy to go through.
Many thanks
Renita Kopfer
Great advice, i was thinking about you the other day. Are there any forums that you recommend I join ?