WASHINGTON — Democrats inched closer to building a majority that could pass a monumental restructuring of the health-care system, with two key House members announcing plans to vote yes, but they remained short of the total required and struggled over changes in how the bill would tax certain insurance plans.
People close to the situation said House leaders Wednesday appeared about 10 votes shy of the 216 needed to pass the legislation, which could be voted on this weekend. The tension was exacerbated by controversy in Washington over a possible tactic, known as “deeming,” that Democrats are considering using to speed the vote.
The final language and cost of the bill remain unknown. The Congressional Budget Office hasn’t yet released its official tally, days later than expected, with Democrats seeking changes to the bill to ensure it pulls down the deficit.
[More]
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Cuccinelli’s office confirms Virginia will sue over health care
The Health-Care Wars Are Only Beginning
RNC Poll Warns Dems On Health Care Vote
Updates:
2:27 pm EDT, March 18th, 2010 — Fox News Poll: 55% Oppose Health Care Reform
For the Democrats the end clearly justifies the means. They are quite willing to be massacred at the polls this November. Obama is willing to be a one termer. Once they get this immense piece of marxist socialist legislation passed, America will be fundamentally changed (as the One promised and not unlike Jim Jones cultists for Americans it will be too late) forever. It’s all going to be worth it to them.
Things are black and white only when we know the truth.
We can hardly claim to know the truth about social economic models. The best we can do is to identify the pros and cons and develop a model from the best of all.
There are too many ignorant partisan pundits who feel it is their duty to protect that which is imperfect, probably out of the fear that things will get worse unless they do.
I say discern the truth and protect the good things, discard the bad.
I have some serious concerns about Obama’s motivations and choices. Only a fool would believe that an increase in social assistance wouldn’t burden the economy. Also why should the holocaust of abortion be socially assisted? Considering American woman abort 2500 babies each day, withdrawing abortion would save lots of money.
Many services are “socialized” for everyones equal benefit. Why shouldn’t healthcare be?
Isn’t good health something we all deserve? Why should those who struggle financially also suffer medically?
The judicial process is that bold/blatant that it no longer hides its inanities. Whatever laws/decisions emanate CAN BE REPEALED by the force of the democratic state.
Here in Ontario, McGuinty’s plan is just and only handing contracts away at the cost of billions for projects that haven’t a hope in hell of working. Nom said a while back whether he cancels or not, the $7 billion is already signed off on.
These just off the shelf technologies (wind turbines) are sickening the affected populations but they’re not in the affected politicians and/or so called scientists gated communities. What goes up will have to come down and there’s apparently a petition being signed against the construction of the turbines.
The Ontario gov’t better listen up to the constituents asap. Canada’s the model of democracy, are we? So, let’s prove its value.
#2:
Who in the U.S. is suffering medically?
The problem is the Government takeover of health care. There will be over 100 new bureaucracies created. Think of the cost of these empire building entities.
85% of Americans are happy with what they have now. Why not look after the 15% who are not happy?
They talk about cutting costs, but refuse to do something about tort reform.
The list goes on.
The Government wants control of the people.
The people want control of the Government.
Gonna be fun to see how this shakes out.
Whose suffering in the U.S. medically? Many Americans are, Lee as their health care institutions are for profit organizations with huge yearly earnings. This money comes, in large part from patients. You must have private health insurance to afford such care. To give some perspective, it costs an average of $500 per month for the medical insurance of a single adult. This amount provides similar or poorer care than currently available in Canada. For a family of four, decent medical insurance can easily cost $2,000 per month. CANADIAN BUSINESSES ARE NOT EQUIPPED TO ABSORB THIS COST FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES.
In addition, the patient is responsible for a copayment fee for each doctor’s visit, emergency room visit, hospital stay, etc.
Of course, there are clincs and hospitals that accept Medicaid patients, however, the quality of care at these institutions is lesser since they cannot provide the high salaries to attract top doctors and nurses. In addition, a lot of high cost procedures are not covered by Medicaid and thus patients in this system are not eligible for the latest treatments and diagnostics.
Consequently, many Canadians appreciate their universal health care with all of its warts and realize that privatization is not the answer. Privatization will only improve health care for the wealthy, while the rest of us will be stuck with costly, mediocre health care.
Who in the U.S. is suffering medically?
Not anyone who has enough spare time to organize tea parties. Maybe that’s why it looks like “America” is against universal health care.
GEEZ, Cant anyone stay on the subject?
Well said Lee. To those who would answer the “who is suffering in the US” by taking a swipe at the US system I would suggest that you turn it to Who is suffering here in Canada? The answer is almost anyone with a chronic condition since we ration equally here unless of course you have the money to go to the US for treatment.
The fact of the matter is that many people don’t like the proposed legislation that is wending its way through the legislative process. If you actually read the legislation it doesn’t take long to realize this does NOTHING to help the poor and uninsured. It reduces the amount of aid already available, doesn’t cut costs, drives up the deficit, increases taxes and the proposed benefits don’t kick in until 2014. Putting quite bluntly Oblamebush wants to spend a trillion dollars so some faceless nameless bureaucrat drawing a very healthy wage with benefits can tell you that sorry you can’t have a hip replaced and oh by the way the government program doesn’t cover the cost of canes.
Regardless of how noble or ignoble you may think the intent of the legislation to use a medical analogy, the cure is far worse than the disease. The process being used is worse than Mulroney stacking the senate to get his GST in place. In case the Democrats need a lesson they should look to Canada and inquire about the fate of the federal Progressive Conservatives.
Re: #5 & 6. Two peas in a pod spouting leftist talking points. Obamacare is not about health care whatsoever, it’s first and foremost about government control.
You can’t call every talking point that shows concern for someone less privileged than you “leftist” then turn around about be offended when you’re called sociopathic, dog-eat-dog etc. Maybe UV and I have seen a bit more of the human condition, or maybe enough to realize that not everyone who doesn’t have the gold-plated American plan is a lazy bum. Ever think about that, BTDT?
When you call every humanistic concern “leftist”, you’re insulting yourself as a “rightist”.
So Joe, the answer is to do a great job taking care of a few people instead of doing a mediocre job of taking care of everyone? Spoils to the highest bidder? Well it would shorten the lines…
This counter-offensive against universal healthcare is mostly to keep the divisions alive so the protesters can keep at the front of the line. It doesn’t solve the problem Obama is trying to address, which is why it is not an “alternative solution” so much as an attempt to preserve dominance.
Agreed there are genuine humanistic concerns out there on both sides of the policical spectrum it’s just that that is not the primary motivation behind Obamacare. The fact of the matter is that the left always disguises its real intentions as a humanistic concerns. Some can see through the empty rhetoric, some can’t. As the product of a committed socialist Obamacare has little to do with the less priviledged and everything to do about more government control therefore your question is a moot point. Few will say that the American health care system isn’t in desperate need of reform. Obamacare will be as much a cure as would be walking into an AA meeting and handing out bottles of whiskey. As destructive and counter productive as doing that would be there are no doubt some out there who would argue that doing so would just be demonstrating concern for those less priviledged as well.
Well Cy let’s just take a look at the numbers. In the US 85% of the people believe they get good to excellent care while 15% get mediocre or no care. In Canada 95% get mediocre care while 5% get excellent care because they can afford to go to the US. So please cut the crap about the ‘caring and sharing’ you seem to think conservatives lack and progressives have. Let’s just focus on results not feelings. Canadian medicare benefits accrue primarily to the unions and their members not the man on the street.
There are other, better ways to pay for medical needs than Canadian medicare if we choose to look for them. I’ve advocated for years that we look at the most cost effective ways to provide medical care as found in any nation in the world. I believe the UN has a medical rating system and country’s like France are at or near the top of the list. Why don’t we borrow their ideas? Instead of North Korea or Cuba? Maybe we could even put a little thought into it and improve on France’s ideas!
As for that fetid pile of el toro ka ka Oblamebush and Plugosi are pushing – EWWWWW! Its taking a bad system and making it worse! Every American is going to pay much more and receive much less. It is destroying all the good points in the existing American system and amplifying all the bad ones. Forget the left / right political slants if the health care reform that is floating around the congress were feces it would gag a maggot.
And what are the Republicans offering for those who have very little or no decent health care coverage? More of the same?
Surely, if they can waste trillions on putting a man into space and on foreign (nation building) wars, can come with a few bucks for decent health care for all, similar to what all their politicians have, as paid for by the american taxpayer. What abut cutting back on all those millions they give to countries like Eygpt, Israel etc. Remember, charity begins at home.
Personally, I dont trust either party to come up with a workable solution but at least the big O has tried..
Anti-universal healthcare types love that 85% figure. But who was surveyed? Have they ever had to USE their healthcare? How many had heart attacks? How many have had to go in for any real surgery?
Any health insurance is good if you never use it. Of course, if 85% were happy and actually had good healthcare then there is no way that the #1 cause of bankruptcies in America would be health care -
http://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/medical_bankruptcy_epidemic
Over half of U.S bankruptcies result from out-of-pocket medical expenses, according to a study published on June 24, 2005 in the journal Health Affairs. The study, conducted by researchers at Harvard’s medical and law schools, is based on interviews with 1,771 individuals who filed for bankruptcy in 2001. Of these filers, 931 cited medical causes for their financial woes.
The results of the study indicate that an estimated 1.9-2.2 million Americans (the filers and their families) are affected annually by medical bankruptcy. I
Read more at Suite101: Medical Bankruptcy Epidemic: Health Care Costs Trigger Half of All Personal Bankruptcies in U.S.
How do you explain those statistics, Joe? As for medical alternatives, sure I agree we should look. But why you choose to jump on the American ultra-right survival-of-the-fittest model is a mystery. Even a poorly executed Obama plan is better than Rolex-care.
“but at least the big O has tried..”
UV just what is that stuff you are smoking? There are about a hundred guys on line wanting to know where you get it!
If only it could be said that Oblamebush tried. Oblamebush has tried to decree by royal fiat that there shall be healthcare reform. He then handed the file to Plugosi and Reedy to do the heavy lifting while he did more important things like bring the Olympic games to Chicago.
Well guess what? Plugosi and Reedy came up with two ‘Frankenstein’s Monster’ packages of legislation that have almost nothing to do with health care. In the mean time Oblamebush took Airforce One to various world centres so Oblamebush could bow to various dictators and despots.
If Oblamebush actually wanted health care reform he would have worked within the American Constitution in close co-operation with both parties in the Senate and Congress. He would have made sure that the American people knew what was being discussed and why. He would have taken what he could get and then work on what he wanted.
Oh BTW the moon shots were done under the Democrats as was the pledge to go to Mars. Bush simply confirmed Clinton wishes.
Cy please re-read what I wrote. I am not a fan of the US system and never have been but that’s totally irrelevant since I am not an American. I have heard from various sources that about 85% of Americans are happy with their system. In a democracy that little statistic is important. When you consider the American revolution was all about getting rid of elitist dictators telling the people what is best for them.
If the American people are happy knowing that the cost of freedom from government dictates is the possibility of personal bankruptcy then I guess that is their choice. They place a higher priority on freedom than you do. Its their choice and its called democracy.
BTW there is no evidence I have seen that would indicate the Oblamebush care would help any American. It cuts existing programs limits choices and the benefits don’t kick in for years. To top it off when the American people are most vulnerable diminished choice, diminished coverage the price (taxes) goes through the roof.
Now if you owned a fully loaded Cadillac that you pay $1000 a month to drive and the government shows up and tells you they will give you a brand new Volkswagen. Granted its a “Plain Jane old style beetle” model and granted the payments start now and are $2000 a month and granted you have to give up your Cadillac now but you won’t get your VW for another 4 years. Oh and BTW while you used to be able to sell the Cadillac and buy a Chevy or even walk you will not be able to stop paying for the overpriced VW. Would you take the VW or stay with what you have?
Cynapse and UV. niether one of you has any real idea what is in the Obama Plan. Its a flowery broad concept who’s blanks will be filled in later. And they wont be filled with policies that are good for Americans. It will be what is good for the Dem Party
support for this bill is not at issue. Dems would ram it through even if 95% of the population were against it.
It has nothing to do with health care and both of you know it.
Even the President doesnt know what the legislation consists of.
Imagine ramming a bill through that even those who vote for or against are not sure what they are voting about.
There is something fundamentally wrong with this whole process.
Regardless of the intricacies of the bill, the idea that there has to be the chicanery, outright dishonest, bribery, and without a doubt going against the will of the majority of the people, is repugnant.
I predict that there will be far reaching consequences over this act of folly.
The Dems believe that once this bill is enacted , there will be no turning it back, and they are prepared to sacrifice their political careers to establish this undemocratically, or by whatever means necessary.
The ‘New Democrats’ in Washington have an ‘agenda’ and like Lee and Joe have pointed out; the agenda is not about the health or well being of American citizens. Like the temp plate here in Canada, the New Democrats strive to keep citizens poor and dependant on guments. I would argue that the Canadian Liberals are on the same page as the ‘New Democrats’ in USA. If the USA goes down, we sink with it! What is bad for them is bad for us.
Just a note to the Obamacare supporters here; I visited Poland in 1984 when it was still Communist, I met a young engineer there and he had a deformed hand and arm, he told me he had burned the arm in boiling water when he was a youngster; it took 4 days for his mom to get him in to see a Doctor; by then it was too late for the arm, the nerves were dead. The Doctor that he saw cost his parents 50.00 dollars (hard currency) and he was a retired Doctor who saw patients with money, There were very few Doctors in Poland because they were paid the same wages as brick layers. But health care was a RIGHT…..
How many of you have read the bill cover to cover and done a deep analysis? Not one. Your objections are typical right-wing kneejerk responses to anything that involves government. You’ll take any amount of crap from a guy in a suit making billions or a guy in a funny hat talking about Jesus. But when it comes to an organization whose makeup YOU decide, trust issues emerge.
If government can’t solve this problem then who can? And why haven’t they already?
“If government can’t solve this problem then who can?”
What problem has the government ever solved? Is their track record not enough of a reason to at least be skeptical? All governments are really good at is stealing more and more of your money while taking away more and more of your liberties.
“How many of you have read the bill cover to cover and done a deep analysis? Not one”
So what? What’s troublesome is that exactly the same statement applies to all of the members who are voting on it. That should reinforce one’s skepticism of this government’s ability to “solve” the problem.
I may have you beat jema54. I’ve had two experiences with Cuban health care. On one occasion my wife went to see a doctor for a minor issue. The doctor decided he would treat her with such and such. Then he asked her to come back and see him in about 5 hours to pick it up. He said his scooter was broken and it would take him that long to walk to the pharmacy and back. He earned the equivalent of $35.00US per month. Later when we picked up the medicine we gave him a $10.00US tip hopefully so he could fix his ‘wheels’. The other time a fellow travelling with us fell and hurt his elbow. He was taken for an x-ray. He was escorted past a long line of locals waiting for treatment and straight into the xray room. The machine itself completely filled the room, it was ancient and gigantic. When they powered this monster up probably half the lights in Cuban dimmed. The doctor placed a lead apron on my friend, and then stood to the side holding the xray negative over the injury. The doctor wore no protection and now we know why Cuban doctors over about 30 yrs old probably glow in the dark. America………meet Obamacare a couple of decades from now.