WASHINGTON — Nine suspects tied to a militia in the Midwest are charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral in the hopes of killing more law enforcement people, federal prosecutors said Monday.
U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said agents moved on the group because the Hutaree members were planning a violent reconnaissance mission sometime in April — just a few days away.
Members of the group called Hutaree are charged in the case, including their leader, David Brian Stone, also known as “Captain Hutaree.”
Once other officers gathered for a slain officer’s funeral, the group planned to detonate homemade bombs at the funeral, killing more, according to newly unsealed court papers.
The indictment includes charges of seditious conspiracy, possessing a firearm during a crime of violence, teaching the use of explosives, and attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction — homemade bombs.
[More]
Related:
Hutaree Website (still up at this time)
Updates:
1:04 pm EDT, March 29th, 2010 — Apparently, this group has some PR work to do.
1:08 pm EDT, March 29th, 2010 — “Who? Us? Never heard of these guys.”
But … but … that sounds like terrorism!
Quickly, someone explain why it isn’t.
I’ve been watching this show all morning on Fox waiting for more detail to emerge. It’s starting to come out now. Apparently, they’ve all been frog-marched to the slammer — never to see the light of day for the next twenty years.
As a friend of mine from the past was often heard to say “They’re so far back in the piss-can the guards will have to feed them with a rocket launcher.”
If it walks like a duck……..
It is domestic terrorism. They are going to pay big time.
It goes to motive, and then beyond that it depends on what exactly the government can prove in a court of law. They have been charged with seditious conspiracy which is considered closer to treason, though a lesser charge. The maximum penalty for seditious conspiracy is 20 years, whereas a person convicted of either treason or terrorism faces the death sentence. Sedition is rebellion against the state, which could be upgraded to more serious charges of treason if it was for the purpose of aiding an enemy of the state, or terrorism if it was for the purposes of advancing a particular political or idealogical cause, such as to create their own separate breakaway state, as the Tamil Tigers and the Chechen terrorists have tried to accomplish.
From a practical standpoint there’s not much difference between crimes of treason and terrorism, however, under the US Constitution, no one can be convicted of treason unless there’s either testimony of two witnesses who saw the person accused of the crime perform an “overt act” of treason (making a bomb would be a good example of an “overt act,”) or a confession by the accused in court. Terrorism, on the other hand, requires only the same level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt as any other crime, so if the government can prove terrorism, it should charge them the more serious charge of terrorism.
I wonder if they belong to the Tea Party?
Re: #5 — “I wonder if they belong to the Tea Party?”
I was waiting for you, UV. Always the man of the minute and use any excuse to put down people who see the danger with this president. What do you want to do?
Destroy the US?
Is that what you want?
Perhaps you have a bigger goal. Turn the US into a clone of “Trudeaupia” just as we beginning to fight our way out of this mess. Four decades and we still find seniors who refuse to learn.
You break my heart and “no” — I don’t support these clowns. But I do take exception to people thinking that all “tea partiers” are renegades. In truth they are standing up for their country — their way of life — and there is nothing wrong with that position.
You watch CNN far to much my friend — time to get Fox.
Ditto Jack , thanks. I thought it was just me getting crumpy but ..enough!
IF the information on these militias is correct, then they are to be separated from tax objectors certainly. There’ll always be extreme elements (extremists) and they endanger the real program.
If the democrats are whistling past the graveyard, one explanation might include the report in the WSJ whereby an additional $12 billion USD has been awarded to the J.P. Morgan bank. The stimulus is expanding and whose paying the ticket?? That’s the objectionable part because people know at this point we’re merely and only assuming democracy. There’s no end in sight. Next tea party meet April 14th in Boston.
So let’s separate the tea partiers from extremist kooks, eh??
Sarah Palin’s making what I consider is her first mistake. She must tone down the militant rhetoric. She’s right at base that it is a ‘fight to the finish’ on taxation policy of the DEMS, but the militant rhetoric only incites. You’ll find it on her second Facebook posting. Anyone can appreciate she’s an experienced actual hunter — that part’s great, but she shouldn’t be drawing on it in the political context. I hope she corrects up the discourse and soon. Her record in Alaska meets up against anything Romney has to offer. Erase this post if it’s not helpful.
The problem with groups like the Tea Party/Coffee party etc, can add credibility to those (in their twisted minds) who would destroy the U.S. from within.
This happens when political parties polarize their country as is going on in the states plus the problem is compounded with so many having guns.
The world must be looking on in amazement as to whats happening in the states.
All empires fall from within elements. Anyone browsing the Hutaree website would definitely observe a disconnect. Bible quotes co-existing with their Poker Face images?? Nuts are abounding with chaos reigning. The nuttier element however is the DEMS reissuing stimulus to the banks. The banksters are continuing with more of the same. That’s the elemental truth in concert of course with the real estate moguls prepared to do business as usual.
As Sarah herself implied, this is but the tip of the iceberg. She, Limbaugh, Malkin, most of FOX, etc have been junking people’s heads up with any kind of anti-Obama rhetoric they can find, along with scares re: gun control and anti-Christian oppression. They’ve gotten more than enough help in the blogosphere, who’ve convinced their readership that Obama, by the simple act of a health care bill, plans to convert America in Soviet Russia. They’ve made the president and his advisors out to be co-plotters with China, the Arabs, the Black Panthers, Gang-bangers etc etc out to oppress the poor American ant – only being on the earth that works for a living.
Is there any inflammatory button not yet pushed? Regardless, this is your harvest. You wanted bitter resistance and division and this is what it looks like.
Now watch all the aforementioned scamper away like rats from their creation. Even the worst offenders on this board have yet to make an appearance.
Re: #12 — Cynapse…Obama has been pandered as the the US saint and he is not. That is becoming clear. If he were everyone would be on board but they are not. Instead we find “WW3″ in the US and with good reason.
My view…Republicans should take over the House and the Senate this year and then they should impeach and fire him.
Sorry…he’s a disaster.
Joe Biden is better because everyone knows when Joe is lieing and Joe won’t do much harm. He doesn’t have what it takes to implement Obama’s agenda. The US will be fine with Joe unlike this very dangerous man now in charge.
None of what you said applies to the gun-toting right. No one’s worried about some big city moderates attempting armed resistance against the U.S. government. The right never liked Obama nor any Democract. Even the GOP are too soft for many in that crowd.
“by the simple act of a health care bill”
It’s not simple. It’s not small. It’s just a beginning.
It’s not about Health, it’s about control.
You can say:
It’s peace in our time
or
Fight it now
or
Wait and see bigger and bigger fiscal collapse the longer you wait.
This struggle is over who will control the economy. The fiscal war tactics and strategy are not much different than those employed in taking ground control in military war, hence the “inflamatory” language by BOTH sides … especially by the post partisan President, who even after winning , instead of healing uses words like “Armageddon” …that’s not leadership.
These are the issues Americans will be facing in November when they make their choice.
As you can see, nom, given rhetoric like yours, some people will not be waiting until November. We may yet see whether Biden would have better – the FBI can’t catch ALL the militants and those people will be given cover by nearly any politically active American who doesn’t take well to Obama’s affronts to the social hierarchy (like the health care bill and whatever beyond that you fear)
Let me be clear.
“Obama is done like dinner” in his first year. He’s gone (soon) and I will say something else here.
Nobody will ever trust a colored president in the US for the foreseeable future in the decades to come. Obama has made his mark and destroyed all chances for the people behind him. I have trouble with the thought as I think about “Condi” and many others but that is truth.
They will never be trusted again to lead a nation.
Obama has “f**ked up” bigtime and his legacy has yet to be written.
But it’s coming.
Now let me be clear – those who didn’t trust him never did and never will.
One more thing – applying your logic no white male should be president for at least a couple centuries. Reagan, Clinton and Bush 2 did quite a job on the economy and should be sending Obama flowers about now for covering their misdeeds with a policy simple enough to overtake the imagination of the average gun-toting, racist pillock.
BTW, never again will an argument from you or anyone else be accepted regarding America getting beyond its racial past. When push comes to shove, you know it’s still there.
It’s a matter of voters Cynapse and we’ll both see how it goes but I will say this. US voters (black and white) are REALLY pissed off with him and he’s gone ASAP.
Take it to the bank.
There are crazies of every political stripe and color:
“U.S. authorities have arrested and charged a man with threatening to kill the No. 2 Republican in the House of Representatives, Eric Cantor, and his family, according to court documents filed on Monday.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36084257/ns/politics-capitol_hill/
Extrapolating individual incidents just furthers the rhetoric.
Let’s hold off judgment until the GOP / Tea Party attempts to disenfranchise 50 million Americans from healthcare. Conservatives haven’t fared too well with rights rollbacks in the last 100 years.
Re: #21 — Disagree: Nobody is being disenfranchised here other than the elderly and I don’t like it. Obama is an idiot and completely without credentials.
He’s like an elephant stumbling around in a china shop. He has no clue and he’s gone ASAP. Wait for it.
And the GOP is going to re-enfranchise the elderly by gutting social assistance and leaving it to the big rigged game? Well that might work since the purpose of pushing home-ownership was to provide people with a nest egg or at least something to mortgage in the event of sickness or other emergency.
Oh, wait -
http://mortgageblues.us/news/105
According to some american news channels tonite, there are now over 240 armed militia groups in the states with some stating that Jesus is their leader.
And all it would take is for one or more of these extreme armed groups to misinterpret what people like Coulter, Palin, Limbaugh have to say and take this as a sign to attack.
Both American political parties have got to work together and turned down the rhetoric for the betterment of their country before its too late.
Re #18:
Would it be fair to say that those who voted for Obama also trusted him?
Would it also be fair to say that since polling shows decreased numbers in support of Obama, therefore some of those who once trusted him do not now?
It is not just the GOP-minded people who do not trust this person. Not anymore.
Quite apart from the “Oblamebush is a twit” rhetoric is there any hard evidence against this militia? I ask that in all sincerity. I guess I don’t see much wrong with some good ol’ boys dressing up like soldiers and shooting guns unless they intend to hurt someone. I also know that Democrat politicians in the US often target such groups to silence opposition. Its quite effective – until someone strikes back. Witness Clinton’s hit woman Reno who went after the Waco Wacko and reaped Oklahoma City as a result. There is something in this case where just when the Left decides the Right is getting uppity with all their “inciting of violence” speech that the left seeks to prove it by going after a militia or two. Gotcha politics writ large.
“As you can see, nom, given rhetoric like yours”
Notice the slide over Obama’s inflammatory “Armageddon” ; just like Ginger Rogers past Fred Astaire.
This is the Obamalinsky strategy. Whip up the scaremongering and hope some lunatic comes out and does something rash. Then we’ll hear the “I told you so’s” from the Obama regime and then on to Phase II.
When the voters don’t like what’s being done to them, Obama blamed Bush. When that doesn’t work anymore and Obama is actually accountable, then blame something else.
This is no different than the Islamists in the ME blaming the West for their failed states. Greece is blaming Wall St for lending them the money. On it goes.
But in November it’s either going to be We the People or We the Government.
This is a very critical time in American history
I also know that Democrat politicians in the US often target such groups to silence opposition. Its quite effective – until someone strikes back. Witness Clinton’s hit woman Reno who went after the Waco Wacko and reaped Oklahoma City as a result.
So it’s Reno’s fault a white supremacist militia-man blew up Oklahoma, huh? Stopping armed groups making violent threats is “gotcha politics”? Your life story as stated here sounds more suspect by the minute.
Also, why would good ol boys march around in fatigues with guns if not to shoot someone? Don’t they have paintball out in the country?
Re #18:
Would it be fair to say that those who voted for Obama also trusted him?
Not really. Voters didn’t know him that well, except to say that he was a great speaker, promised change when change was desired and he was not George W. Bush. Not sure that amounts to trust – call it the audacity of hope.
If Obama doesn’t catch one from one of Joe’s Good ol Boys, an economic turnaound could salvage Obama’s presidential ratings. Most people look at the state of their own lives and reflect their sentiment on whoever happens to be in charge at the time – from the mayor upward.
‘We the people or we the government’ are one in the same, at least its suppose to be even in the states.
Remember its the people who put governments in to represent their interests and if they dont, theres such a thing as elections to get rid of them. Should be easier in the states with a two party system.
And I agree that this is a very critical time in American history so lets hope that someone or some fringe group doesnt do something stupid during this heated time as has happened in the past cause a severe recession like this can bring out the worst in people who are looking for someone to blame.and punish, sometimes violently..
“So it’s Reno’s fault a white supremacist militia-man blew up Oklahoma,”
According to the man who did it – “YES”.
Oh, well Joe I guess the government should never go after violent militias again
How come this logic does not apply to Islamists? They blew up a much bigger building – that must be at least worth a withdrawal from Qatar, non?
Joe, you are a strange lad.
Cy the Waco Wacko was not violent!!! There was no real reason to go after him. Even the residents of Waco said that the guy was a harmless nut that had a messianic complex and liked to drink beer. It was only after the government sent in the armed goons that the Waco Wacko returned fire.
Now in the US you have the right to FREE SPEECH
You have the right OF FREE ASSOCIATION
You have the right FREEDOM OF RELIGION
You have the right to BEAR ARMS
I know that you’re not a big advocate of FREEDOM as witnessed by your support of left leaning causes but for the militias unless their intent is to hurt someone. are well within their Constitutional Rights. You may not like it but a bunch of guys dressing up as soldiers and shooting real bullets while claiming to be Christian is perfectly legal.
I wouldn’t suggest that the government rush in to shut down a gay bath house for blacks only either, unless they were threatening someone with real physical harm.
FREEDOM is a useless, loaded term. There has never been and likely never will be absolute freedom. Doubt that? Tell me you support the aims of NAMBLA. Most likely nobody here does. You belong to a religion which means you’re all about restricting freedoms, even between consenting adults, so no further examples are necessary.
Thus when someone tries to mask their agenda under “freedom” the first intelligent question should be “freedom to do what”?
In Joe’s case he’s talking about -
-Groups (especially exclusive ones)
-Guns
-God
A Christian milita is an intersection of all three and most importantly they are the kind of people you want to defend. Thus you can sleep easy writing off any concern about these arms-stockpiling wackos as being against freedom. People don’t stockpile weapons to play tag with or to put on the shelf to admire. Doubt that? Let people have all the guns they want and try to ban bullets.
You kind of freedom leads to oppression and is born of hypocrisy. There are probably armed groups of Muslims training in an American forest right now – let’s see if you go to bat for them.
No, Mr Joe, it is not freedom you care about. It is power.
Cy please check your time line. Reno sent in the ATF fully armed to take down some goof from Waco that thought he was God. Two years to the day later another goof thinks that the federal government didn’t have the right to go after the goof from Waco gassing and killing women and children so in retribution blows up the federal building in Oklahoma.
BTW I support Muslims and their right to practice their religion in any way they see fit so long as they do not engage, or attempt to engage, in acts of violence.
Check your timeline Joe or more importantly the first goof you think is so harmless:
The 1993 U.S. Department of Justice report sets out allegations of historical child sexual and physical abuse. ATF Special Agent David Aguilera had interviewed former Branch Davidian Jeannine Bunds, who claimed that Koresh had fathered at least fifteen children with various women and young girls at the compound. According to Bunds, some of the girls who had babies fathered by Koresh were as young as 12 years old. She said she had personally delivered seven of these children. Bunds also claims that Koresh would annul all marriages of couples who joined his cult. He then had exclusive sexual access to the women. He would also have regular sexual relations with young girls.
Maybe the NAMBLA example wasn’t an ace in the hole as hoped …
As for goof #2, were his true aim to avenge the honor of a suspiciously militarized half black church, what was he doing with a copy of the Turner Diaries? Kin, the Branch Davidians were not. Waco revenge is the explanation the right likes – that was McVeigh’s attack is a “hit back” as you put it.
Well Cy let’s assume what you say about the Waco Wacko is true. Now ask yourself is that the best way to take down a pedophile? The guy went to town, unescorted, in his pickup truck to buy beer on a regular basis. So instead of stopping the guy on the way back to his compound you send in the FBI and the ATF and kill ‘innocent’ people in the compound.
Now there are pedophiles in the city that don’t warrant the use of the ATF and FBI. There are urban gangs that have killed far more people than the militias have even dreamed of but they don’t get the ATF FBI treatment either.
So what was the real purpose? One plausible explanation is it casts the ‘militias’ in a bad light and reinforces bigotry of urban bigots like Cy. It also marginalizes those (nasty right wingers) who see nothing wrong with guys running around playing soldier with real guns. In other words it serves the political ends of the leftists who do not believe in the Constitution.
I’m not one given to conspiracy but the timing of this ‘bust’ is most curious. Make up a bunch of unfounded allegations about racists inciting violence then bust a very visible militia. Guess what? It consolidates the urban bigot vote and it serves to hush up Palin, hush up the Tea Party, hush the Religious Right and gets all the RINOs to pledge their allegiance to.the progressive ideal.
The guy went to town, unescorted, in his pickup truck to buy beer on a regular basis.
So they should arrest a demagogue, leaving dozens of angry followers who think he is the messiah and the police are the Romans back at the compound with a huge cache of weapons. Brilliant. Take about 12 second to guess what will happen next.
Now there are pedophiles in the city that don’t warrant the use of the ATF and FBI.
They don’t have well-armed doomsday cults either
There are urban gangs that have killed far more people than the militias have even dreamed of but they don’t get the ATF FBI treatment either.
Now you’re just making garbage up. Gangs face both those organizations plus the DEA and the CIA.
One plausible explanation is it casts the ‘militias’ in a bad light and reinforces bigotry of urban bigots like Cy.
First KKK now urban bigot. Anyone who doesn’t follow along with your doomsday Christian pathology is some form of bigot in your mind. Yours isn’t so much a desire to exist as it is to be free from resistance as you force your views on others.
I’m not one given to conspiracy but the timing of this ‘bust’ is most curious. Make up a bunch of unfounded allegations about racists inciting violence then bust a very visible militia. Guess what? It consolidates the urban bigot vote and it serves to hush up Palin, hush up the Tea Party, hush the Religious Right and gets all the RINOs
Yes you are a conspiracy theorist and have a serious bunker mentality. Everyone who doesn’t fall into line is always out to get Joe and his poor little far-right Christians, who clearly have never done anything wrong other than care too much.
How paranoid are you? Sarah Palin is on the #1 news network in America, the Tea Party was polling better than the Democrats or the GOP, the religious right is still forcing America to take out hits on its religious rivals … but you’re all under attack apparently. The mere presence of alternative thought is a threat to you.
I lived in a town with a big gun shop where the owner flew a huge rebel flag and a David Duke poster. Nobody ever tried to shut him up and the store closed when he wanted it to. That’s how it is. Us disliking what he stood for was not oppression.
Give your head a shake.
Reading how heated and ” cranky “, and full of stereotypes, the above comments it sort of gives me a very bad feeling about how this situation could get out of control if passions on the Left and Right lead to irrational behaviour by either or both sides down in the U.S.A..
The accusations against this militia group, if true, are very serious but if the Left uses these to tar all militia groups as being the same it will feed into the paranoia by actually making their fears of repression real and cause a great deal of fear: Fear is a great motivator to irrational behaviour …..
Just saying to everyone that cool heads and not raising the level of ” hate ” or accusations of hate would be a good thing here in our ” civilized discussions far from the ” action ” but even more important that cool head prevail in the U.S.A. because this whole thing could lead to excesses by any side that would be impossible to resolve ” quietly ” : Sparks meet powder keg …. WTF
Jean … that completely makes sense and in the USA even moreso since the Joe’s are well armed and quite serious about their revolution. I was watching an interview with a young man who worked in a store near where the militia trained. He stated, in a very tense voice, that the townspeople just tried to stay out that militia’s way. But isn’t a militia supposed to be looking out for the people?
In America, virtually any militarized outfit can escape social scrutiny by picking up a bible and barking about their right to bear arms. It hardly makes patriots out of them. Pretty soon, most of this continent is going to realize we don’t have to go digging around in ancient caves to find totalitarian religious whackos who want to force a new way of life on us. The battle is right here in our backyard. It’ll be interesting to see who among us supports such insurgent groups. We officially have one suspect.